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Post by rangerdave on Jul 22, 2010 0:33:06 GMT -6
Instead of starting thirty-six different threads, I'll put all my WoC lists here.
This first one is 2500 points on the button (if you believe Army Builder). I'm trying to take advantage of what I have painted.
Characters Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch, lvl 4, disc, Blood of Tzeentch (reroll any casting die except 1's), Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Endurance (4+ modified ward), Bloodcurdling Roar
Exalted Hero of Tzeentch, BSB, shield (2+ vs. shooting), disc, halberd, Talisman of Preservation (3+ modified ward), potion of foolhardiness (one use, ItP and devastating charge)
Exalted Hero of Nurgle, chaos steed, shield, Crown of Command (stubborn), Bronze Armor (Immune to psych, poison, kb)
Core Speed 5 x 2 warhounds (screen) 5 x 2 horsemen, flails, axes, musician
Strength 23 Warriors of Khorne, full command, shields, halberds, rapturous standard
Special 11 Knights of Nurgle, full command, banner of rage 2 chaos chariots unmarked
Rare Hellcannon
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Post by zao77s on Jul 22, 2010 6:37:56 GMT -6
Just from looking at the list......it looks tough. No seriously. This army has a ton of armor to get through. If I were to play it again. I would just kill off the warhounds and horseman, and try to avoid the other gribblies while I tried to shoot down chariots and characters. Typical avoidance game.
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Post by davidthebowman on Jul 22, 2010 10:45:33 GMT -6
You might want to take a few marauder units so you have more areas to get the 4+ Look Out roll for you two casters on dics. There really won't be a way to hide them. Plus you will be able to use them to defect enemy trash units that will try to delay your knights.
Also, you should take the dispel scroll. A big roll on of the nasty spells could rock that Nurgle unit.
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Post by CapAmr05 on Jul 22, 2010 10:50:51 GMT -6
I thought in order to get a look out sir, you needed to be in a unit that was the same 'unit type'?
Infantry character in an Infantry unit.
Ogre Sized character in an Ogre Sized unit, etc.
?
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Post by davidthebowman on Jul 22, 2010 11:56:46 GMT -6
I looked over the rule rather quickly, but I thought I saw that when you were outside the unit you could take a 4+ (if within 3") no matter the troop type, but cannot remember completely.
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Post by CapAmr05 on Jul 22, 2010 12:43:45 GMT -6
Ah, that may be true, I was jsut thinking of inside a unit, I forgot we had an 'outside' LOS now too.
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Post by rangerdave on Jul 22, 2010 13:05:11 GMT -6
I looked over the rule rather quickly, but I thought I saw that when you were outside the unit you could take a 4+ (if within 3") no matter the troop type, but cannot remember completely. It's the same troop type (p. 97, characters), but dics of tzeentch are classified as warbeasts, which means warhounds are the right option since they share that class. It's a great moving barrier unit. 5 hounds are 30 point meat shields that give a look out sir, but unfortunately, my disc riders are modeled too high so I can't claim the -2 to enemy shooting.
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Post by sdhakala on Jul 22, 2010 15:56:11 GMT -6
Warhounds are war beasts but discs are flying mounts, so they fit into a unique category of flying cavalry. In other words, no look out sir.
With TLOS, war beasts are a waste other than to distract attention and go after war machines.
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Post by rangerdave on Jul 22, 2010 16:33:36 GMT -6
Warhounds are war beasts but discs are flying mounts, so they fit into a unique category of flying cavalry. In other words, no look out sir. With TLOS, war beasts are a waste other than to distract attention and go after war machines. Flying Cavalry is not a troop type. Flying Cavalry is a special rule. The BRB Bestiary lists Discs of Tzeentch as War Beasts. The Troop Type entry for War Beasts mentions treating ridden WB's as cavalry, but that doesn't discount the LOS! rule.
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Post by jessegarrett on Jul 22, 2010 16:46:38 GMT -6
If it says to treat ridden war beasts as cavalry, why wouldnt you treat them as cavalry for LOS?
Probably better for you that way anyway.
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Post by rangerdave on Jul 22, 2010 18:15:28 GMT -6
If it says to treat ridden war beasts as cavalry, why wouldnt you treat them as cavalry for LOS? Probably better for you that way anyway. Because it's true line of sight. So if your cavalry is perched way up on a floating disc, he can see everyone, and they can see him.
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Post by jessegarrett on Jul 22, 2010 18:52:39 GMT -6
I meant LOS to mean look out sir, not line of site
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Post by rangerdave on Jul 22, 2010 19:10:43 GMT -6
I meant LOS to mean look out sir, not line of site Okay, I see. Well, the BRB says characters riding War Beasts use the rules for cavalry, not that they change troop types. It's good they included that because it clears up a lot of questions that are detailed under the cavalry entry.
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Post by sdhakala on Jul 22, 2010 21:29:10 GMT -6
Cavalry is not the same troop type and does not follow the rules for war beasts. Flying cavalry is technically not the same as cavalry; it is a special type of cavalry, my undertstanding is that a special troop type is not the same. I guess one could argue that a hero or lord on disc has Look Out Sir if in or near a unit of cavalary, but I would not push it, it is not clear to me whether the special type of flying cavalry should get the Look Out Sir from cavalry, especially given the view that flying models cannot be in units in 7th edition. There is a separate discussion of flying cavalry. Anyway, a war beast is a war beast, not cavalry ( a rider on a war beast), so my original point that war hounds provide no Look Out Sir and no protection other than maybe a hard cover penalty for BS shooting is still valid regardless. Look OUt Sir explicitly requires the exact same troop type whether in or near another unit.
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Post by rangerdave on Jul 22, 2010 22:58:40 GMT -6
But War Beast is a troop type and Flying Cavalry is not. Characters riding War Beasts operate those War Beasts according to the rules of cavalry, but they're still riding War Beasts.
Flying Cavalry is a special rule, and there's no written passage that connects it to ridden war beasts operating as cavalry.
If a Disc of Tzeentch is classed as a War Beast and hounds are classed as War Beasts, then the fact that ridden War Beasts operate according to cavalry rules is irrelevant. The troop type hasn't magically metamorphosed into cavalry; the rules by which that model, in this case a Tzeentch character skating along on a disc, moves and behaves on the battlefield is simply defined according to a rule set defined earlier.
Yes, and two units classified in the BRB Bestiary as War Beasts would gain that advantage, no?
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