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Post by sdhakala on Jan 20, 2011 14:41:45 GMT -6
I would appreciate some advice as to what else to add initially to a collection of space marines models (3000+ points) I recently picked up cheap (used, mostly painted to a below average std but fixable and some unpainted) as a proxy and learning army for Matt to play 40K with his brother using his Chaos Daemons army (has a lot of 40K models we picked up cheap when collecting his WHFB army, including 2 soul grinders and 2 unmarked and unbuilt daemon princes). I don't have enough time for me to learn WH40K and play and still play WHFB, so I've only looked at some sample army lists on the net to try to figure out what might be good.
Here is what I obtained (in addition to the Assault on Black Reach models that we obtained):
Space Marine Army. It consists of:
1 Land Raider Tank 1 Devastator Tank 1 Whirlwind Tank 1 Land Speeder 2 Dreadnoughts 1 Biker Squad (2 bikers, 1 double-biker w/ melta-gun) 2 Devastator Squads (4 Las cannons, 4 Plasma Cannons) 1 Assault Terminator Squad (6 terminators) 1 Terminator Squad (8 terminators) 1 Assault Squad (10 assault marines) 3 Tactical Squads (33 marines, 2 las cannons)
1 Force commander with claws and jump pack 1 Librarian in terminator armor with claws 1 Assassin
The unpainted land raider does not have top turrets, but otherwise, is in good condition and will be included as well. It can either be repaired or used as terrain. The Army comes with 1 40k codex, 1 Space Marines codex, and 1 Assassins codex.
Additionally, from Assault on Black Reach we have: a Space Marine Captain, 10 Tactical Space Marines, Five Space Marine Terminators, and a Space Marine Dreadnought.
Any other models that one would suggest as a start (drop pods, additional land speeder?; rhinos? weapons to add?)
This came after I bought the Assault on Black Reach set for Matt to learn (with his older brother) 40K rules. I felt a base set of space marines models would be a good choice as a learning and proxy army and can be converted to or form the base of other potential armies (Space Wolves, Black Templar, Blood Angels).
Thanks for any advice, some people are dumping SM models cheap right now.
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Post by zao77s on Jan 21, 2011 21:33:43 GMT -6
I currently have some additional models that I am trying to sell if you want to buy them off of me. I am getting rid of them at a pretty reasonable price.
If you want to play a vanilla codex, you are going to need tactical marines and rhino transports. I can give you a good generic list to build on if you would like.
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Post by sdhakala on Jan 22, 2011 22:07:00 GMT -6
That would be appreciated. A good generic starter list at 1750 to 2000 points would be greatly appreciately with a number of variations in style. As I mentioned, I'm really looking to just build a basic proxy army for Matt and his older brother to play with and against and to use to proxy other armies that are popular to learn to play, so I'd like enough stuff to proxy some different armies for casual play. Maybe in the future I'd add to it or convert it to something competitive (40K is really not my style of play but Matt and Chris amy like it).
I've got tacticals and dreads from the Assault on Black Reach. Based on the feedback on anther site: I'm looking for at least two more rhinos at least after I got one more. I now have 3 land speeders after I got two more. I could use up to 3 predator tanks. Drop pods may be something to consider. After that, I'd appreciate some advice.
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Post by zao77s on Jan 22, 2011 22:22:47 GMT -6
Yeah, it all depends on what kind of army Matt is looking to play. 40K lists are generally grouped into shooty or fighty. Obviously there is a middle ground as well. What would Matt like to accomplish?
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Post by sdhakala on Jan 23, 2011 12:26:55 GMT -6
Matt really wants to play his Chaos Daemons, which he has enough of already (soul grinders, daemon princes, etc), so this is really for a second army to proxy and play against. Depending on how the daemons do, they are different to play, he may choose to use this army as a starter or his brother might like to play it. Apparently, the new FAQ makes SM and its variants better. I think we are look for enough models to proxy any of the alternative variants one might play and proxy space wolves, blood angels, etc. for mostly casual play (although I know people complain when base SM models are used to proxy for the specialized armies).
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Post by zao77s on Jan 23, 2011 15:54:51 GMT -6
For a solid Space Marine army, you take this 2,000pt list.
HQ Vulkan He'Stan
Elite Dreadnought- multi-melta, DCCW/heavy flamer, drop pod Dreadnought- multi-melta, DCCW/heavy flamer, drop pod 5 Assault Terminators- thunder hammer/storm shield on all 5, riding in a land raider crusader with multi-melta
Troop Tac Squad- 10 marines, 1 multi-melta, flamer, sargeant with combi-melta, riding in rhino Tac Squad- 10 marines, 1 multi-melta, flamer, sargeant with combi-melta, riding in rhino Tac Squad- 10 marines, 1 multi-melta, flamer, sargeant with combi-melta, riding in rhino
Fast Landspeeder- multi-melta, heavy flamer Landspeeder- multi-melta, heavy flamer
Heavy Predator- autocannon, heavy bolter sponsons Predator- autocannon, heavy bolter sponsons Predator- autocannon, heavy bolter sponsons
This list is pretty nasty because Vulkan allows you to reroll all flamer and melta weaponry shots and allows thunderhammers to be master crafted (reroll one missed hit). It provides a lot of anti-tank fire. I think you would mostly need to get the rhinos and Vulkan and you would be said.
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Post by sdhakala on Jan 23, 2011 19:11:02 GMT -6
Thanks. I will see with what I've got how much I can run something like that, may have to convert the land raider. Someone mentioned that the new FAQ made the terminators more viable now but Matt and Chris can run almost all of this list after proxy for the special characters. I have three land speeders. I now have two additional used predators, but neither has exactly the set up you mentioned, one with twin linked cannons and heavy bolters on the sponsons and the other with all lascannons. I still need to get at least two more rhinos. I did not get any characters, just have basic commander models now, until Matt figured out what to run.
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Post by zao77s on Jan 23, 2011 21:01:09 GMT -6
Those things shouldn't be a problem if you just run proxies. Many guys at A51 do that kind of thing. In regards to weapons setups on tanks, etc. I highly recommend magnetizing. Customization is so much more frequent in 40k than in fantasy.
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Post by sdhakala on Jan 24, 2011 10:27:43 GMT -6
I went online and found a few army lists with some tactics based on the build you suggested (Salamander). It is a very good army for a starter and reportedly is very competitive (one commented it was cheesy) because of Vulkan and the flaming and metas, so I really appreciate it. It also would kind of fit Matt and Chris's play style since Matt is used to salamanders and shooting skinks in his Lizardman army in WHFB, as well as running flamers and flaming shooting attacks on his Tz. heralds in his DoC army.
If I get models new, I will definitely magnetize to be able to swap out and play a tank with different armament. Matt and I almost never play the same exact army and always tweak our armies every time we play just for freshness. I'm kind of stuck with the used models I'm getting (should have today or tomorrow). I may be able to do some surgery and can buy the alternative weapons, turrets with different cannons and sponsons for the predators. We can't complain, as it appears I paid well less than 25% of retail price for models already assembled and about a third of what the models would sell for on e-bay if broken up and sold separately. All that for an army mostly painted to a minimum table-top standard (while workable, will require a lot of refining to make it suitable for competitive play, although the color scheme is suitable for a salamander-focused theme). The land raider appears to be a crusader. There is an additional land raider and what the seller described as a devastator appears to look like an older style of what is now called a vindicator, which some of the online tactics discussion recommend as a really good option in place of one of the three predators. Also, some online discussion suggests that a whirlwind is a hit or miss option but can be very effective against larger armies with more infantry if it is bunkered and/or kept in cover and allowed to shoot away. Now, I just need some drop pods and a couple more rhinos and some extra sponson options and turrets.
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Post by zao77s on Jan 24, 2011 12:40:51 GMT -6
5th ed. 40K is all about mechanized units. That is one reason the whirlwind sucks. It is great at taking on large footslogging armies, but you don't see those often.
The devestator sounds like it could be a vindicator. They are decent, but not on their own. If you took one vindiator and 2 predators, I would hit the vindi first and keep it from shooting. Then I would handle the predators. Vindicators have such an amazing gun that they become targets very quickly.
As far as what you go, I think you probably got a good deal. It looks like you got quite a few models.
I would agree with your final statement. If going for a Space Marine army, rhino chassis are your bread and butter. If you buy a razorback box, you can kit it to make either a razorback transport or a rhino (which is highly useful).
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Post by sdhakala on Jan 28, 2011 12:00:27 GMT -6
The army came in a GW case and was in pretty good condition given the age (looks like the army was bought and painted almost ten years ago). Well, here's what I've got or have coming so far. Probably more than enough to play at least 4 of the different base codex SM army chapters and to proxy some of the others.
3 Land Raider Tanks (more than I need; one normal with parts to repair gun and drive; one crusader fully assembled and painted, and one unassembled crusader/redeemer that can be outfitted to go either way with weapon options and type) 4 rhinos (3 on sprues and one assembled and primed but needing repair a panting) 3 drop pods (1 assembled and primed for dreadnought, 2 unassembled and new) 2 Vindicator Tanks (both assembled and painted) 1 Whirlwind Tank (assembled and painted adequately but needs some rework) 3 Land Speeders (one assembled but needing TLC, two unassembled) 4 predators (one with all twin lascannons, one with bolters on sponsons and twin lascannon turret, one with blood angels painting with two turret options and bolter sponsons with magnets for swapping weapons, one with autocannon and bolters on sponsons; plus a rhino upgrade sprue with turrets and sponsons for switching out weapons options, one bits sprue with turrets and guns, and one bits sprue with sponsons and gun options for switching; the turrets all can be removed and replaced but the sponsons are glue on in most instances) 4 Dreadnoughts (all assembled with two painted but badly needing to be cleanup and a partially repainted and two just need painting but correct for list) 1 Biker Squad (5 bikers, 1 attack bike w/ melta-gun and heavy flamer alternative) 2 Devastator Squads (4 Las cannons, 4 Plasma Cannons) 1 Assault Terminator Squad (6 terminators, mix of weapons, two with thunderhammers and shield and five more hammers and shields on sprue) 2+ Terminator Squad (13 terminators, mix of weapons) 1 Assault Squad (10 assault marines) 4+ Tactical Squads (46 marines, 2 las cannons, 3 with flamers and still need 3 with mulit-meltas and combi's for sarges)
1 Force commander with claws and jump pack 1 Librarian in terminator armor with claws 1 Assassin 1 Vulkan 1 Lysander 1 Pedro Kantor 1 Sgt Chronus
Still looking at getting: 9 scouts with sniper rifles and sarge or Telion (one on e-bay that looks cheap relative to retail) Maybe one razorback Siome spare combi-metlas and combi-flamers and multi-meltas (although some are already on tactical models and sarges in the set)
I saw a strategy of bunkering the vindi (with the shield allowing it to ignore terrain), running two vindis, or running it with and surrounded by or behind LR and/or rhinos or something else and then exposing it when time to shoot arives. Supposedly the vindis are very effective against heavy terrain (buildings and ruins) but, as you mentioned, they will get shot at but, with the speeders, preds, LR and rhinos, it actually is effective to run them so that those units get in a bit closer in range if one runs a salamander chapter with lots of MM's and flamers. Also, recommendation of scout unit with sniper rifles or on bikes as a distraction and objectives unit.
Any thing I'm missing?
Also, comments on mech are interesting, as on the Internet I keep reading about guys facing horde armies (Orks and stuff) and less mech.
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Post by zao77s on Jan 28, 2011 12:42:10 GMT -6
Horde armies exist, but not nearly as prevalently as mech armies.
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Post by zao77s on Feb 2, 2011 18:41:36 GMT -6
I did a little research and played a game via Vassal with a Vulkan list. It turned out a victory on my part at the very end of the game. Here is the list I took:
Vulkan Master of the Forge- servo harness, power weapon/bolt pistol
Dreadnought- 2x twin-linked autocannons Dreadnought- 2x twin-linked autocannons 6 Assault Terminators- 1 w/lightning claws, 5 with thunder hammers and storm shields, all riding in a Land Raider Crusader
5 marines- riding in a razorback with twin-linked plasma guns and a lascannon 5 marines- riding in a razorback with twin-linked plasma guns and a lascannon 5 marines- riding in a razorback with twin-linked plasma guns and a lascannon
Dreadnought- multi-melta, DCCW/heavy flamer, riding in a drop pod Dreadnought- multi-melta, DCCW/heavy flamer, riding in a drop pod Dreadnought- multi-melta, DCCW/heavy flamer, riding in a drop pod
This is a variation of what I showed you up there. I really like dreadnoughts, so I took the Master of the Forge in order to take them as special slots and heavy slots. The pod dreads come in and use Vulkan's chapter tactics rule to throw around twin-linked multi-melta and heavy flamer shots while the terminators with Vulkan and MotF ride in the LRC and fight things. It was fun and I ended up bloodying up an Eldar list in an annihiliation scenario. It will seriously lack oomph in a scenario mission, but was fun to play with.
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