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Post by dg1 on Sept 28, 2013 20:36:47 GMT -6
To clean up this thread, I will post summaries over the earlier posts. Generally, the new Wood Elf book feels a bit lackluster, mostly because of the lack of a unique lore (lord casters get access to High Magic and Dark Magic), the core options were nerfed or overpriced, and one will have difficulties in protecting characters. A lot of things were fixed but the point costing is a bit high for traditional infantry units, especially core units, and you have the typical GW/Matt Ward goofy rule choices, like making Glade Riders ambushers (why would one want to ambush fast cav with longbows?).
What they gained: 1. Wood Elves (but not forest spirits) gained ASF as expected. 2. Wood elves gained a new forest stalker special rule. This is discussed below in this post. The issue is relying on units being in forests to get the boosts dark elves and high elves get automatically. 3. As outlined below, Wood Elves gained AP on their longbows and spears (both infantry and mounted). Most models with Asrai longbows (except warhawk riders and waywatchers) also can upgrade their longbows to add magical attacks with either poison (1.5ss), no to hit penalties (1.5ss), or -3to AS (2.5ss). But their longbows are no longer S4 at short range and they no suffer movement penalties for moving and shooting. 4. They gained two new units: Wildwood Rangers (Great weapon special unit) and Sisters of the Thorn (special fast cav, lvl 2 wizards, basically the same idea as Dark Elf Warlocks but inferior in fighting ability but poison shooting and are on S4 stag mounts) that are both well worth playing. 5. Treekin were made a lot less points cost (-10ss) but lost a point of strength, so they will be a favorite unit but stuggle against 1+ AS units. S4, T5, 4+ AS, and 6+ ward with fear and ITP for 7.5ss per wound is still a pretty good deal. 6. Wild Riders are still good and probably have to be played, like dark riders they are fast cav that can get to a 4+ AS with a shield and 6+ ward (talismanic tatoos). The rider can get three attacks on the charge with frenzy and devasting charge and the spear for +1S and AP means that they are S5 and AP on the charge but S4 and AP otherwise; additionally their mount is a stag (deer) with S4. 7. Waywatchers have a hawkeye rule that allows them to choose between multishot 2 or shooting with no armour save but they are not cheap (10ss) and only S3 with AP. 8. Warhak riders were fixed as expected by giving the hawk mount 2 S4 attacks with AP, 3 wounds, and giving them killing blow on the charge. 2 S$ AP attacks with KB on the chargeis pretty good with the rider having S4 and AP with ASF on the charge as well. They no longer have the hit and run rule and are slightly more expensive in points +2.5ss. 9. Ancient Treeman are now lvl 2 life mages and LD10 and can be upgraded to lvl 3 or lvl 4. There are cheaper as well but they lost -1WS, -1S and -2A and have to pay for sttangleroot in the process. If you can count on enough terrain or screening from cannonballs with buildings, obstacles, treekin, or treemen, this makes them an interesting and points efficient lord option with lvl 3 life. 10. Spellweavers (lords) get all 8 common lores and Dark and High Magic options with okay lore attributes; Spellsingers (heroes) now get access to all 8 common lores but not High or Dark Magic. 11. Branchwraiths are now lvl 1 lore of life mages. 12. All mages in the army book gain Blessings of the Ancients that give them +1 to cast spells. 13. The book gained the Alaroth lord special character that is okay. 14. Durthu is Ancient Treeman special character in book. 14. The Shadowdancer is a wardancer hero that is a lore of shadow mage.
What was lost, nerfed, changed: 1. Eternal guard fighting style which gain two attacks in front rank and 5+ AS was removed. 2. Forest Spirit rule is mostly the same but is now a straight 6+ ward save (instead of 5+ ward to non-magical attacks) and the restriction on non-forest spirits joining their units is no longer in the book. S5 3. Strangleroot is now purchased as a treeman upgrade (10ss) and is now rang 12" (instead of 6") S5 (instead of S4 or S5 in forest) and D6+1 shots instead of artillery dice hits (Treemen get pretty good BS though.) 4. Treeman also have a Tree Whack special close combat attack (but it is only worthwhile against very high T and/or very high AS and low I multiwound models). 5. Dryads and Treekin and Treemen all generally lost 1 point of S. 6. Wild riders now get their +1A from Frenzy instead of a special rule but also gain devastating charge special rule. 7. Wood elves now suffer the -1 penalty for moving and shooting. 8. Glade riders are now ambushers, which is totally dumb and useless for a fast cav unit with longbows (you want them on the field at the start). 9. No Athel Loren magic lore (is Matt Ward or GW getting lazy?). 10. Waywatchers lose lethal shot (killing blow) but gain no armour save and multishot options, so not a real big deal. 11. Wardancers have modified rules such that they get the extra attack with AHW but lose the +1 S in the first round of combat but the ward save option is 3+ ward, killing blow option is AP and KB, and woven mists breaks enemy ranks (since they already have ASF now). 12. Kindreds no longer exist (some are partially built into special rules). 13. Spites no longer exit (except as fluff). 14. Army specific magic items are now Heirlooms and reduced in number (same names but modified points costs or rules for some that were retained as discussed below).
General Special Rules Blessings of Ancients: +1 to cast if in woods (generally given to all mages, including forest spirit mages) Ambush Worldroots: Place free forest (6” diameter) of chosen type on your half of battlefield Forest Spirits: 6+ ward, ITP, all shooting and combat attacks magical Forest Stalker: Forest Strider, if half or more of models in unit are in forest extra rank of shooting and extra rank of supporting attacks and re-roll to wound rolls of 1
Wood Elf Weapons: Asrai Longbow: same range, S3 (lost +1S bonus at short range), AP, Volley Blackbriar Javelin: 12”, S-user, poison and AP Asrai Spear (foot): S-user, AP, extra rank Asrai Spear (rider): +1S on charge, AP Enchanted Arrows: Magical, Upgrade Asrai Longbows, pay cost per model, one type only in a unit and must use the enchanted arrows if so equipped (can't just switch back to Asrai long-bows when shooting at a BOTWD unit). Hagbane Tips: 1.5ss, gain Poison Trueflight Arrows: 1.5ss, gain no to hit penalties Moonfire Shot: 2.0ss, gain flaming, +1 to wound Forces of Order Models Starfire Shafts: 2.0ss, gain flaming, +1 to wound Forces of Destruction Models Swiftshiver Shards: 2.0ss, gain multishot(2) Arcane Bodkins: 2.5ss, -3 to AS instead of AP
High Magic Lore Attribute: Place protection counter next to mage for each successful spell it casts, if the mage suffers an unsaved wound then use/remove a counter to negate to wound Dark Magic Lore Attribute: Place a vengeance counter on enemy unit targeted if spell is successfully cast. If the unit suffers a hit from another Dark Magic spell, then it suffers an additional D3 hits (rolled separately) for each counter on the unit (remove the counters).
Heirlooms of Athel Loren: Spirit Sword (42.5ss): [changed and more expensive] Magic Weapon: No armour saves allowed+if model suffers an unsaved wound, then wielder and wounded model roll 2D6 and add their leadership. If wounded model is lower, it suffers a wound for each point below bearer’s roll+LD with no AS. Daith’s Reaper: Magic Weapon: 25ss, [same but “must” re-roll] Must re-roll all fail to hit and fail to wound rolls and enemy model must re-roll successful armour saves Bow of Loren: [-7.5ss cheap but now suffer multishot penalty] Magic Weapon, 10ss, Multishot (Attacks+1), no enchanted arrows Helm of Hunt: [same] Magic Armour, 10ss, +1to AS, Devastating charge and +1WS in turn charging into combat Acorns of Ages: [new] 50ss, enchanted item, place D3 forests on battlefield before deployment, scatter each D6”, all must be of same type of mysterious forest (you choose), if scattered into terrain or board edge stop 1” away. [before or after roll for table sides???] Moonstone of Hidden Ways: [same but cheaper] 20ss, enchanted item, bearer’s unit if entirely in a forest may move to another forest at end of Movement phase as long as 1” from enemy units or impassible terrain, counts as having marched. Hail of Doom Arrow: [same but gained AP] 15ss, one-time 3D6 multishot, AP, use instead of longbow, S4 Calaingor’s Stave: [changed] 10ss, Arcane item, gain Tree Singing, augment, 8+ cast, 18” range, move forest D6+1” in chosen direction (cannot come within 1” units or other stuff), if unit is in forest it cannot move but enemy unit takes 2D6 S4 hits; if boosted to 16+, affects all forests within 12” Banner of Eternal Queen: [new] 50ss, standard, MR(3) and unit is unbreakable for one turn only (declare at start of turn) Banner of Hunter King: [new], 37.5ss, standard, unit gains vanguard, unit may re-roll first charge [waste of space]
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Post by dg1 on Oct 3, 2013 13:50:40 GMT -6
Lords: Glade Lord, same points cost as before but +2.5ss more than HE Prince and DE Dreadlord which both have superior rules and armour and mount options, same base stats, gained special rules ASF, Forest Stalker, Arrow of Kurnous Arrow of Kurnous: at start of battle (after deployment), if enemy general is within 36” and within line of sight, then the enemy general takes a S3 autohit with no armour save. Equipment: light armour now free (-1.5ss) Shield; same Asrai spear: same AHW: -1.5ss Great weapon: same Longbow (still free) may be upgraded with enchantment with standard point costs. Mount: steed: now fast cav, +1ss Great Eagle: same Great Stag: same Forest Dragon: -10ss Same common magic points allotment
Spellweaver: -15ss, ASF, blessings of ancients, forest stalker, all 8 common lores plus high and dark magic lore options Asrai Longbow: no longer free, 2.5ss Unicorn (no kindred upgrade cost now): 30ss (-2.5ss plus no 10ss for glamourweave kindred option) Steed, fast cav: +1ss Eagle: same
Treeman Ancient: -17.5ss, same AS, blessings of ancients, still stubborn+terror+large target+forest spirit+flammable Stat changes: -1WS, BS4, -1S, -2A, +1LD Now Lvl 2 Lore of Life mage with std upgrade costs for lvl 3 and lvl 4 options No longer counts as a rare choice as well. Strangeroot upgrade: 10ss, range 12”, multishot D6+1, S5 Tree Whack (use only against very high T and/or high AS and low I multiwound models, mentions steam tanks, lizardmen monsters, thundertusks and warsphinxes as targets): Replace normal close combat attacks with one tree whack. If target model fails an I test, then it takes D6 wounds with no armour save. The tree whack may be used in a challenge. No spites or allotment of points for spites anymore. No magic points allotment.
Orion: +12.5ss, ASF, Forest Stalker, Frenzy, Unbreakable, Monster, no longer forest spirit Base stats: BS8 now (+3), +1S, -1W, -1A Spear of Kurnous: Spear that may now be thrown as a bolt thrower as well, range 18”, S7, Multiwonds D3, no armour saves Hawks Talons: missile weapon, range 30”, S5, multishot6 (used to be S6 bolt thrower with no AS and D3 wounds) Cloak of Isha: 5+ ward save, MR2, at start of your turn roll D6 and recover lost wound on a 6. (used to be just +2 dispel dice) Horn of Hunt: one use, now gives devastating charge to Orion’s unit and all wood elf units within 6” (instead of panic check on enemies within 18”) Hound Options: 10ss (more expensive), forest spirits, unbreakable, frenzy Hound stats: +1T, max of 2 [no armour save and too expensive]
Durthu (Ancient Treeman special character): 192.5ss, Ancient Treeman special rules + frenzy+hatred, Lvl 1 lore of beasts (instead of lvl 2 life) mage, 3+ AS Stats: M5, WS7 (+3 over A.T.), BS7 (+3 over A.T.), S6 (+1 over A.T.),T6,6W (+1 over A.T.),6A (+3 over A.T.),LD10 Lamentation of Despair(no strangeroot) shooting attack: 12” range, S2, KB, 2D6 multishot [Extra stats are nice but a lvl 4 life Ancient Treeman with strangleroot for slightly less cost seems more worthwhile, especially given the lore attribute]
Araloth: 130ss, ASF, Forest Stalker, 4+ ward, Stubborn, Unbreakable when lone character Glade lord stats but +1WS, +1A Asrai spear, shield (no light armour) Skaryn the Eye Thief: At start of you turn, choose enemy model within 18”, model takes a S4 hit, if unsaved and roll to wound of 6 then the wounded model suffers -5WS and -5I for rest of battle (min 1, a model can only suffer once)
Heroes: Glade Captain: same cost as prior noble (why does he cost 2.5ss more than HE Noble and DE Master which have better armour and mount options and special rules), ASF, Forest Stalker, Arrow of Kurnous special rule (same as Glade Lord above), same magic points allowance, std BSB upgrade cost Base stats: no change Light Armour (now free, -1ss) Shield: same Asrai spear: same AHW: -1ss Great Weapon: same Steed: fast cav, -1ss Eagle: same Great Stag: 32.5ss (no longer have to upgrade to Wild Rider kindred)
Spellsinger: -5ss, ASF, Forest Stalker, Blessings of Ancients, may now choose from all 8 common lores, same magic points allowance Asrai Longbow: +2.5ss (used to be free) Steed: fast cav, -1ss Eagle option added for std cost of eagle. Unicorn: 30ss (no longer has to take kindred to ride Unicorn)
Shadowdancer: 50ss, ASF, Blessings of Ancients, Forest Stalker, ITP, shadow dances, talismanic tattoos (6+ ward), AHW Upgrade to lvl 1 shadow (30ss, too expensive!!!) Up to 25 magic points allowed M5, WS8, BS6, S4, T3, W2, I8, 3A, LD8 [Seems too expensive glass without the hammer]
Waystalker: 45ss, ASF, Forest Stalker, Hawk-eye archer (waywatcher special rule), Scout, Sniper M5, WS6, BS7, S4, T3, 2W, I7, A1, LD8 AHW, Asrai Longbow, may take 25 magic points [does the sniper and hawk-eye combo justify that many points with only S3 AP longbow and possibly mutishot 2 or no armour save shooting?]
Branchwraith: 37.5ss, Blessings of Ancients, Fear, Hatred, Forest Spirit, Lvl 1 Life Mage M5, WS6, BS6, S4, T4, W2, I7, 3A, LD9, no magic points allowance [Might be interesting if Dryads not nerfed, 25mm base limits use as mage that can fight due to 20mm wood elf infantry, no protection and no ASF means not worthwhile] Mounts: Steed: as before but fast cav Forest Dragon: same stats and rule but gains forest spirit special rule, soporific breath weapon Is no longer poisoned but S2 with -3 to armour save and causes stupidity for rest of game to all models in the unit hit by the breath weapon attack Great Eagle: same, MB Great Stag: Forest Spirit, Fear, Impact Hits D3, 3W, same base stats, MB Unicorn: same base stats, forest spirit, MB, MR2, fear, Impale (+2S on charge)
[The thing I do not understand is why the wild riders or another unit was not given a great stag rider option for a monstrous cav to go with the great stag mount in the book. Seems like a big miss or GW concerned about Wood Elf sales and not willing to giving them a harder hitting monstrous cav unit and allowing a character on a great stag to benefit from that mount option. That would also make the Unicorn more viable for a mage with the MR2 being a big boost for such a unit.]
Drycha: -50ss, special character dryad, lvl 2 shadow (no longer Athel Loren lore), Blessings of Ancients, Fear, Forest Spirit, Hatred (lost ability to re-roll to hit always), lost spites and dispel dice boosts Base stats: +1BS, -1S, (still 3 wounds as hero), -1I, -1A, +1LD Fanatical Resolve: for every wound below 3 she gains +2 attacks but also loses 2 attacks if she regains or add wounds Roused to Wrath: goofy and largely useless rule to allow D3 forest spirit units to not be deploy and then appear sort of like ambushers but only in forests on table and 1” from all other units which means you have to have forest open for them to appear in on a roll of 3+ on D6 in your remaining moves phase in your first turn. [While a lot cheaper, she is just not good enough to justify especially with dryads nerfed. Might as well take an Ancient Treeman for 20ss more points.]
Naestra & Arahan (the sisters), now a hero instead of a lord choice, Asrai Spear, light armour, ASF, Forest Stalker, same cost as before, must be mounted; Base stats: same as before Sister twin rule remains: both must die in same phase or they are both restored to full wounds and both may fight in a challenge Sisters of Twlight: Nastra gets +1 to wound models from Forces of Destruction; Arahan gets +1 to wound models from Forces of Order Naestra’s missle weapon: Talon of Dawn: 30” range, S5, AP, Flaming, multiwounds D6 (Naestra’s mount regains a wound if the weapon causes an unsaved wound) Arahan’s missle weapon: Talon of Dusk: 30” range, S1, AP, multishot D6, poison Gwindalor (great eagle) Mount Option: now free (-25ss); now allows re-rolls of fail to hit shooting attacks (modest boost for BS6 models); same base stats as before [does 3 wounds on mount give each of the sisters 3 wounds instead of two given 8th edition FAQ rule on monstrous beast mounts?] Ceithin-Har (special forest dragon) Mount Option: -50ss cheaper!!!!, same base stats, forest spirit, Impetuous (must pass a LD test to avoid charging if able to charge), Soporific Breath, forest spirit, 3+ AS [They look like a great option until you realize that they get killed on a great eagle with a cannon ball hit on each and some additional shooting to finish them off; same issue with massed shooting. They only have T4 from the eagle and 5+ AS on riders and a unit with a lot of attacks has a chance to kill them off in combat with enough attacks. The dragon mount is interesting to absorb many of the magic direct damage and missile hits but a cannon ball still takes out potentially both sisters in one shot although the dragon’s six wounds can absorb a lot; might be an option in a monster mash list.}
The issue for wood elf glade lord and captain is no heavy armour and no additional mundame armour options beyond a shield. Compare with dark elves having heavy armour, shield and sea dragon cloak options. High elves get heavy armour, dragon armour, and shield options. Both HE and DE fighting characters have effectively better special rules, unless you have a lot of forests on the battlefield to work with. This may make a Treeman Ancient an interesting lord option with the 18" inspiring presence range as long as one can find a way to avoid cannon balls and stuff that cuts through high T and armour saves (like lore of metal and certain lore of death spells).
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Post by dg1 on Oct 9, 2013 19:37:19 GMT -6
Core Units: Glade Guard, same cost and same base stats, ASF, Forest Stalker, [why same cost? 1ss more expensive than a HE archer for AP and HE archers get an automatic extra rank of shooting and attacks, do they think AP and forest stalker are that good? They must think those enchanted arrow options are really good! No light armour or shield options.] Std full command upgrade costs, up to 25 points magic banner May upgrade Asrai Longbows with the enchanted arrow option (only one and may not repeat same type with another unit) [Make the free wood a Venom Thicket and puts glade guard in them for extra rank of shots and poison shooting might be worthwhile.]
Dryads, -.5ss, Fear, Forest Spirit, Hatred, no longer skirmishers, flammable Base stats: -1S, -1I [ouch on the S] Std champ upgrade [compare these guys with witch elves, they have 2attacks as well but get +1 with frenzy and have poison and ASF; compare with ghouls having poison but also being undead]
Eternal Guard, -.5ss base cost (base same cost as before with a shield), same base stats as before, losing eternal guard fighting style (2 attacks in front rank), gain Asrai spears (extra rank and AP), light armour, forest stalker, stubborn Shield (+.5ss) (always take shield given points cost for +1AS) Full command upgrades std costs, up to 25 points magic banner (used to be 50 points for banner) [basically take these guys in a narrow width and use as a stubborn character/mage bunker]
Glade Riders: -2.5ss, ASF, Fast Cav, Ambushers (why?), Forest Stalkers, Asrai Spear, Asrai Longbows Same base stats Full command upgrade std costs, up to 25 points in magic banner No light armour and no shield option (Reavers have same point cost with light armour and bow, but not longbow and no AP on spears or bows) May upgrade longbows with enchanted bows (cannot repeat enchanted bows of another unit)
[Pretty lackluster choices. Glade guard are probably overcosted by 2 points relative to HE archers which get to shoot in extra rank. Glade riders are not quite competitive compared with dark riders and ambusher is big issue for fast cav with shooting and spears. You probably will see a wide Glade Guard unit with poison shooting to go after war machines or with no shooting penalties (can kill skirmishers and hit stuff behind hard cover or screened by your units without penalty like TK skelly archers) and Eternal Guard stubborn bunker, tarpit unit. Without S4, dryads probably are not used except in limited role given the stubborn LD9 eternal guard unit with AP spears and ASF. I could see s specialized glade guard unit with the -3 to AS benefit if one expects to see a lot of T3 and T4 units with high armour saves.]
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Post by dg1 on Apr 9, 2014 19:10:01 GMT -6
Special Units: Wardancers: -1.5ss, 5+, Two Hand weapons, ASF, Forest Stalker, ITP, Skirmishers, Talismanic Tatoos (6+ ward), Shadow Dances Same base stats, no longer get +1S in phase when charging Std upgrade costs for music and champ Shadow dances (choose one each combat phase, may not use same one twice in a row; very similar to prior ones): Whirling death: AP and killing blow special rules (gained AP) Storm of Blades: +1 attack Shadows Coil: 3+ ward save (4+ before) Woven Mist: Enemy units in base contact lose CR bonus for extra ranks[!!} [used to be ASF but now automatically have ASF; does not appear to break steadfast]
Warhawk Riders, +2.5ss [gained attacks and wounds], ASF rider, 3+, AP hawk, flying cav, Forest stalker, Hawks get KB on charge, Asrai Spear (rider), Asrai Longbow Same base stats for rider Hawk gets 3 wounds (instead of 2 wounds), +1T, 2 attacks (instead of one) [Lost the hit and run special rule but still gained a lot of punch with AP on spears and bows and extra wound, extra toughness, and extra attack at S4. Now 3 S4 attacks with AP on charge. These guys become very viable mage bunker assassins and war machine hunters.]
Wild Riders, 5+, same cost, light armour, Asrai spear (gain AP), frenzy (instead of 2 attacks), Talismanic Tatoos (6+ ward), fast cav, no longer forest spirits, Forest stalkers, fear, devastating charge, ASF (riders only) Same base stats for riders, mounts are now stag deer with S4 Shields (+1ss) [no shield in old book, gets them to 4+ armour save, so well worth the cost] Std full command upgrade costs (cheaper than in old book), up to 50 points magic banner fornot lose frenzy, then they get 2 S4 AP attacks with ASF and 1 S4 attack in following rounds of combat; they can have 4+ AS and 6+ ward save]
Tree Kin, -10ss!!, 3+, Forest Spirit, fear, 4+ AS, flammable Base stats: BS4, -1S, Champ upgrade std cost (cheaper than before) [compared with ogres, they really look competitive with the better WS, T5, 4+ AS, 6+ ward and ITP]
Wildwood Rangers [new], 10+, 5.5ss, ASF, Forest stalker, ITP, Guardians (models get +1 attack if in base contact with at least one model with fear or terror special rule; does not say have to target that model) Base stats: same stats as eternal guard Great weapon, light armour, no shield option Full command std cost and options, up to 25 points magic banner
Deepwood Scouts [glade guard scouts instead of upgrade cost to scout glade guard], 5+, 6.5ss [+.5ss over glade guard], ASF, forest stalkers, scouts, skirmishers, Asrai Longbows Full command std upgrade costs, may upgrade longbows with enchanted arrows per std cost per model
Sisters of the Thorn{new} 13ss, ASF for riders, fast cav, forest stalker, poisoned attacks for riders, 4+ ward save, lvl 2 mages with Curse of Anraheir and Shield of Thorns spells Stats: riders WS4, BS5, S3, T3, W1, I5, A1, LD9 Mount stats: M9. Ws3, S4, T3, 1W, I4, 1A, LD5 Blackbriar javelins: 12” range, S-user, poison Full command options at std costs, magic banner up to 50 points When they miscast, they suffer D3 wounds with no saves of any kind (no ward saves). [Compare to Doomfire warlocks, you pay +.5ss more but have -1S and -1A on rider but +1S on mount. Shield of thorns is only so-so, and lore of life attribute only works if another multiwound model is within 12”. They key is that they get a poison missile weapon with BS5. Would have been better with wyssans because of the boost to the javelin and attacks in combat and the benefit to the army.]
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Post by dg1 on Apr 11, 2014 11:02:58 GMT -6
Rare:
Waywatchers, -2ss, two hand weapons, Arsai Longbows, ASF, Forest Stalker, scouts, skirmishers Same base stats Champ upgrade per std cost Hawk-eye archer: gives ability to choose between no AS shots or multishot2 (used to have lethal shot killing blow) [better ability with monsterous cav and high armour save models]
Great Eagles: same cost, same stats, same as in High Elf book
Treeman, -30ss but 10ss to upgrade to strangleroot and 1 less wound, flammable, forest spirit, stubborn, tree whack, terror, large target, 3+ scaly skin Base stats: -1S, -1 wound, +1LD
[With lower cost of Treemen, you can now afford a unit of waywatchers, one eagle, and two treeman in rare slot at 2400 to 2500 points. A monster mash list appears to be viable with warhawk riders and eagles to go after war machines, a tree kin unit, a shooting and/or stubborn core, Ancient Treeman lord, cheap bsb, (maybe even sisters on dragon), wild riders and/or unit of sisters for lvl 2.]
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Post by dg1 on Apr 24, 2014 16:55:49 GMT -6
Some odds and ends: White Dwarf issue with first wave pre-release information is out tomorrow afternoon:
In the White Dwarf designer notes on the elf lord it states that if he is in a wood he gets to reroll 1's to wound.
Waywatchers are reportedly much lower points cost
May 5th Release confirmed with pre-orders starting tomorrow afternoon: Wood Elf Army Book ($49.50 USD; 96 pages) Wood Elf Battle Magic Cards ($7.50; 16 cards for two lores with 8 spells per lore) Araloth special character model ($22 USD) Treeman/Ancient Treeman/Durthu Kit ($61 USD) Limited Edition Army Book (online order only; $90 USD) Wood Elves ShadowDancer ($15 USD; online order only) Digital Army Book (iPad edition, price not posted) Digital How to Paint Wood Elves (iPad edition, price not posted)
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Post by dg1 on Apr 29, 2014 20:00:25 GMT -6
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Post by dg1 on Apr 29, 2014 21:29:19 GMT -6
This is a summary from another site: Trying to get this into a final form Special Rules: •Kurnous' Arrow: [Lords and Heroes] If enemy general is within 36" and LoS at start of game, one auto S3 no AS hit •Asrai Bows: S3 AP (Glade Guard, Glade Riders, Scouts, Warhawk Riders, Waywatchers, Glade Lord, Glade Captain, and Waystalker) •Asrai Spears: S3 AP Spears •Ancient's Blessings: +1 to cast in woods [ Not sure who has this rule) •No Spites or Kindreds [ Waywatcher and Wardancer Kindreds have been hard-coded as a unique hero type now ] •Magic Arrows: Upgrade to units. Can be 1 of: poison, flaming and +1W order OR destruction, AP (-3), multi-shot, ignore shooting modifiers •Dual Prowess: WE get BOTH Prowess rules when >=50% of unit is in woods. (reroll 1's to wound only for cc, fight and shoot in extra rank) •Free Forest: Citadel woods in your half(!) of table , you choose the type (i.e. Wildwood, venom thicket, etc) •Forest Spirits: 6++, ItP •Strangeroots - 12", d6+1 S5 hits. 10 slave upgrade to Treeman/Treeman Ancient Magic: •Access to all 8 BRB lores, plus High and Dark magic, with unique lore attributes. High magic is "+1W" [ probably just heal wound] on caster or unit; dark magic is +1 token to enemy unit per hex cast on it. when taking damage from spell, take +1D3 hits per token. Magic Arrows: (Taken on Glade Guard, Glade Riders, Deepwood Scouts, Glade Lords, Glade Captains only) [cost are for GG] [only 1/unit or model] [characters can have 1, independent from magic item allowance] •Curse of the Witch: Poison (1.5 Slaves) •Moonfire: +1 to wound Forces of Order, Flaming (2 Slaves) •Starfire: +1 to wound Forces of Destruction, Flaming (2 Slaves) •Swift: Multiple Shots (2 Slaves) •Accurate: No to hit modifiers (2 Slaves) •Bodkins: AP(-3) (2.5 slaves) Magic Items: •1. Soulblade: No armor save allowed. If a char/monster suffers unsaved wound, both roll 2d6 add morale. If wielder wins, difference is translated into wounds with no armor saves allowed. [>25 slaves] •2. Daith's Spear: reroll failed hits and wounds and enemy rerolls passed armor saves. [25 slaves] •3. Helm of the Hunt: +1 armor, devastating charge, +1WS •4. Bow of Loren: armor pen, number of shots=A+1, no magic arrows •5. Acorn of Eternity (makes d3 forests; you choose type; must all be the same) [50 slaves] •6. Moonstone of Hidden Ways: unit in forest and out of combat may transfer into another forest •7. Hail of Doom Arrow: 3d6 armor penetrating S4 shots •8. Wand of Wych Elm [treesinging bound spell; only arcane item; only way to access treesinging] •9. Banner of Midwinter (MR3; Unbreakable for a Turn) •10. Banner. Vanguard and extra charge distance on first charge of the game Units:
SPECIAL CHARACTERS: •Durthu •Aralorn •Orion (300 slaves) •Drycha (Lore of Shadow) •Naestra & Arahan [137.5 slaves w/ great eagle, can ride forest dragon [not sure if a named one] for 110 slaves] LORDS: •Glade Lord (Maybe take magic arrows) •Spellsinger (May use 8 BRB lores or High / Dark) •Treeman Ancient (may not take items) (lore of life only; base Level 2; may be upgraded to L4) HEROES: •Glade Captain (May take magic arrows) •Spellsinger (May not use High / Dark) •Branchwraith (Lore of Beasts/Life; Wizard Level 0-1, may not take items) •Waystalker (Sniper, 25pts magic items) •Shadowdancer (Shadow Dances, 25pts magic items, Can be upgraded to L1 shadow) CHARACTER MOUNT OPTIONS: •GLADE LORD: Elven Steed (10 Slaves), Great Eagle (25 Slaves), Great Stag (32.5 Slaves), Forest Dragon (150 Slaves) •SPELLWEAVER: Elven Steed (10 Slaves), Great Eagle (25 Slaves), Unicorn (30 Slaves) •GLADE CAPTAIN: Elven Steed (5 Slaves), Great Eagle (25 Slaves), Great Stag (32.5 Slaves) •SPELLSINGER: Elven Steed (5 Slaves), Great Eagle (25 Slaves), Unicorn (30 Slaves) CORE: •Eternal Guard (WS5 LD9 elves, Spear, LA, Stubborn, 5 slaves w shield upgrade) [25pt banner] •Glade Guard (same pts as before, can take magic arrows, scouts now a separate unit) [25pt banner] •Glade Riders (9.5 slaves, Ambushers, may take magic arrows) [25pt banner] •Dryads (S3, Hatred, no Skirmishing, no musician or standard, 10+ unit size, 5.5 slaves) SPECIAL: •Warhawk Riders (Both Riders and Steeds AP, KB on charge for hawk [same cost as treekin; 20 slaves) [now 3W] •Wild Riders (Frenzy [Rider and Mount], Devastating Charge, Fast Cavalry, Talismanic Tattoos, Light Armor) [50pt banner] [13 slaves, 14 with shields] [Prowess apparently applies to mounts as well] •Deepwood Scouts (GG with Scout and Skirmisher) •Treekin (S4) •Sisters of the Thorn (13 slaves) [50pt banner] •Wardancers (Dances: 3++, KB, +1A, break ranks; no +1S on charge, 6+ AS, no std, 7.5 slaves, can swap AHW for asrai spears for 0.5 slaves) •Wildwood Rangers [25pt banner] WS5 S3 LD9 elves, AP GWs, +1A for models in btb with fear/terror-causer RARE: •Great Eagles (Can be taken in units now; no upgrades) •Treeman (112.5 slaves, S5, Strangleroot for 10 slaves) •Waywatchers (can either double-shot or ignore AS every time for shooting, 10 slaves)
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Post by dg1 on Apr 30, 2014 17:55:33 GMT -6
Summary of Mages and spell options: Mage: all 8 lores Branchwraith: life Treeman ancient: life Druthu: beasts Shadow dancer: shadow Mage lord: dark or high or one of the 8 lores
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Post by Woodies on May 2, 2014 10:38:41 GMT -6
Yes! Warhawks are now T4 and 3 wounds and riders get ASF for only 2.5ss than before. Finally, I can play them.
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Post by dg1 on May 4, 2014 17:33:13 GMT -6
The army summary is complete. Older rumors were deleted and replaced with review to cut down pages. I'd love for anyone to give ideas as to how to play Wood Elves. I've collected them for a while wanting to play them. I do think Warhawks are now viable, as are Treekin, but the core options are pretty limited and unappealing with dryads nerfed by -1S.
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Post by dg1 on May 17, 2014 17:56:31 GMT -6
Update on rules issues arising:
1. The description of the Acorn of the Ages magic item [50 ss] is not clear. This item allows the bearer generate D3 woods at the beginning of the game after the battlefield has been set up but before deployment begins. Since you chose table sides at the beginning of the deployment phase, it is not clear as to whether the D3 woods are placed before or table sides have been chosen. As a note: the forests generated must all be of the same type but can be any one of the mysterious forest types in the BRB. The most popular is to choose Venom Thicket. Venom Thicket makes all models moving through the woods take dangerous terrain tests and gives poison attacks (only in close combat) to models (not units) in the Venom Thicket. All wood elf models have the forest strider special rule Forest stalkers on regular elf units and on forest spirits as well) and the strider special rule is clear that a model with the Strider special rule "do not have to take Dangerous Terrain tests" [while in that terrain type]. The language is broad and inclusive. Since wood elves tend to have low S3 but generally ASF or hatred and often AP (Asrai spears and longbows), gaining poison and making opposing models take dangerous terrain tests specifically benefits wood elf core, scout, and skirmisher models.
Also note: While this magic item might seem expensive, it can be worthwhile for the wood elves given their enchanted arrows and given the option of choosing a Venom Thicket (see note above). A Citadel forest is pretty large (about 8" by 10") and can fit multiple MSUs within it as a result. Also, while not cheap, their is a magic item which gives the bearer and the unit the bearer is in to jump from one forest to another (as long as fully within the forest left and able to be placed fully within the forest entered and 1" away from other units and impassible terrain).
2. There was a heated debate on the new enchanted arrows. They count as enchanted magic items and are listed as character or model upgrades for many models equipped with Asrai longbows (Glade Guard, Glade Riders, Glade Guard Scouts/Deepwood Scouts, Glade Lord, and Glade Captain). [Warhawk riders and Waywatchers do not have the ability to upgrade their arrows.] The book is clear a model with an enchanted arrow choice may still take an enchantment (in the BRB) in addition (Glade Lord and Glade Captain). Some argued that only one model may take any specific type of enchanted arrow given the BRB restriction on taking [named] magic items. To me, the clincher in this debate is the fact that the arrows are unit upgrades (meaning all models in the unit can carry the upgraded arrows and not just one, like a champion) and are listing in the army list section as unit and model specific upgrade options with no restrictions stated in that section of the book. As a note: the most popular choices are poison arrows (which retain AP) and trueflight arrows (not shooting penalties for moving, cover, skirmisher, etc.; so these guys are like Tomb King archers but with a much greater BS) because those are the cheapest and be value upgrades. Alternatively, some are taking smaller units with the bodkins upgrade which is -3AS shooting and the Starfire Shafts which give flaming, +1 to wound against Forces of Destruction models (think Chimeras, trolls, beasts of nurgle), and AP. Both upgrades are more expensive and situational but valuable in certain matchups and metagames. The ability to wound harder to wound models with regen on a 5+ and to shut down regen generally on a unit is potentially a valuable option in an MSU army.
3. The Sisters of Twilight on the special great eagle technically would each get the wounds and toughness of the eagle, making them T4 and 3 wounds each. This is potentially important because one has to fully wound both sisters in the exact same phase or else both models are restored to full wounds at the end of the phase. In effect, this model is a 6 wound and T4 model (I think only a 6+ AS) with all wounds regenerated at the end of each phase. Note: If one shot the model with a cannon ball, you wound have to roll separately to wound each of the sisters and then, if wounded, roll a D6 for the number of wounds separately for each sister. This, then, acts like a sort of super 5+ ward save in each phase when hit by a cannon ball (wounding each 5/6th of the time but wounding both only about 2/3rds of the time). Additionally, if either cannon ball wound rolled less than 3 for the number of wounds caused, then the sisters will live to the end of the phase and recover all previously lost wounds unless you are able to shoot them again and put more wounds on them. The same rule holds when they are on the forest dragon but the forest dragon can be separately wounded and will absorb two-thirds of the hits from hits allocated as BS shooting. Also, one of the magic bows allows the sister causing an unsaved wound to recover a wound on the mount. Not sure the Sisters are worth taking, but they could be effective in some settings and an interesting option for taking on certain units, especially if supported. A unit of 5+ warhawk riders will also give the Sisters on the Great Eagle a 4+ look out sir roll if within 3" of the unit (can not join the unit due to rule that characters on mounts cannot join a unit of skirmishers).
4. Waystalker sniper rule debate - Waystalker is a hero character with the scout, sniper, and Hawk-Eye special rules. Hawk-Eye means the model either gets one single shot that allows no armour save or 2 shots with AP. He can take up to 25 points of magic items and can take a Bow of Loren. The Bow of Loren is a magic missile weapon that gives multishot equal to the number of attacks the model has +1. The language for the sniper special rule is not well written. It reads generally singular as one may replace the model's normal shooting with "a sniper shot". Does that mean that when the Waystalker chooses to shoot a sniper shot it only gets one shot (cannot use the Hawk-Eye rule to make two shots and can not use the Bow of Loren to get two shots)? There are two examples in play of models with the sniper rule and able to multishot: a witchhunter with a brace of pistols and a skink scout special character with a multishot(3) blowpipe. It has generally been held that the ability to make multishots from the weapon or special ability carries over to the sniper shot. (The Witch Hunter's FAQ says he carries over killing blow to his target from such shooting.) This would mean that a Waystalker would get two shots at S3 AP with the sniper ability combined with his Hawk-Eye ability. So, a naked scroll caddy or T3 model with limited armour save and no ward save is vulnerable to sniping with multishot. The question is whether the Hawk-Eye ability which is clear would combine with the Bow of Loren to make two sniper shots and to use the no armour save ability in this shots as well. The Hawk-Eeye rule as written does not explicitly say that the no armour save (aimed shot) must be a single shot; it only says that using the fast shot ability gives the missile weapon multishot(2) special rule. This would imply that, since the Bow of Loren gives multishot (A+1) that one could used the "aimed" shot ability and deny armour saves but not the "fast" shot ability since it would be redundant.
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Post by aaronchapman on May 25, 2014 8:43:02 GMT -6
4. Waystalker sniper rule debate - Waystalker is a hero character with the scout, sniper, and Hawk-Eye special rules. Hawk-Eye means the model either gets one single shot that allows no armour save or 2 shots with AP. He can take up to 25 points of magic items and can take a Bow of Loren. The Bow of Loren is a magic missile weapon that gives multishot equal to the number of attacks the model has +1. The language for the sniper special rule is not well written. It reads generally singular as one may replace the model's normal shooting with "a sniper shot". Does that mean that when the Waystalker chooses to shoot a sniper shot it only gets one shot (cannot use the Hawk-Eye rule to make two shots and can not use the Bow of Loren to get two shots)? There are two examples in play of models with the sniper rule and able to multishot: a witchhunter with a brace of pistols and a skink scout special character with a multishot(3) blowpipe. It has generally been held that the ability to make multishots from the weapon or special ability carries over to the sniper shot. (The Witch Hunter's FAQ says he carries over killing blow to his target from such shooting.) This would mean that a Waystalker would get two shots at S3 AP with the sniper ability combined with his Hawk-Eye ability. So, a naked scroll caddy or T3 model with limited armour save and no ward save is vulnerable to sniping with multishot. The question is whether the Hawk-Eye ability which is clear would combine with the Bow of Loren to make two sniper shots and to use the no armour save ability in this shots as well. The Hawk-Eeye rule as written does not explicitly say that the no armour save (aimed shot) must be a single shot; it only says that using the fast shot ability gives the missile weapon multishot(2) special rule. This would imply that, since the Bow of Loren gives multishot (A+1) that one could used the "aimed" shot ability and deny armour saves but not the "fast" shot ability since it would be redundant. You forgot the Maneaters with Sniper and Brace of Handguns.
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Post by dg1 on Jun 18, 2014 10:21:40 GMT -6
Aaron's point on the Bow of Loren on a Waystalker is consistent with how most are reading the rules.
There is a continuing debate on the issue of enchanted arrows in the Wood Elf army book in terms of the "unique" rule for magic items on page 500 of the BRB. Enchanted arrows commonly being seen in army lists include: Hagbane= adds poison; Trueflight= adds no BS shooting penalties; Starfire shafts = adds always flaming as wells as +1 to wound models from Forces of Destruction armies hit by such arrows; Arcane Bodkins = -3 to armour save in place of AP; and Swiftshiver Shafts = adds MS2. The Wood Elf army book rules do say that even though the enchanted arrows are enchanted items (meaning magic items conferring magical attacks) they don't stop a character, model, or unit equipped with enchanted arrows from taking a second enchanted item (if so allowed in a magic points allotment), so the 'balance of power' special rule for magic items in hte BRB is effectively overridden. I'm not sure why they would specifically override one of the magic item special rules and not the other. Given this, most TOs (consensus apparently reached in United Kingdowm GTs for example; see, also, Rock Wars FAQ) and ETC 2014 consider enchanted arrows to be as equipment upgrades for multiple models in eligible units in the Wood Elf army book and, therefore, each eligible unit/character with Asrai Longbows is entitled to choose one enchanted arrow upgrade at a point cost per model in the Wood Elf army book. In that sense, the army book over-rides the "unique" rule that a magic item can only be present once, on one modeel or item, in an army. There are prior precedents in the Daemons of Chaos book (bloodletters and crew on Skullcannons and Heralds of Khorne all are equipped with the same magic weapon; plague bearers and Heralds of Nurgle also have the same magic weapon; such that, if the unique rule applied one could not have two Heralds or a Herald and a core Khorne or Nurgle unit) and Skaven (FAQ on multiple Vermin Lords allowed even if both have the same magic weapon).
The counter-argument which has some appeal is that the unique rule in the BRB says a magic item may only be taken once in an army list unless specifically stated otherwise. Even though GW has said in the past (in FAQs and in army books) that equipment upgrades and standard equipment options in the army list rules are not subject to the unique rule for magic items in the BRB, there is no specific language explicitly saying that enchanted arrows ignore the unique rule in the BRB. Thus, some TOs are strictly interpretting the unique rule as not allowing a specific enchanted arrow type in the Wood Elf book to be taken as an equipment upgrade on more than one unit or character and the database for WHFB in Army Builder has an error message saying that a specific type of enchanted arrow cannnot be taken twice in the Wood Elf army.
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Post by dg1 on Jun 18, 2014 11:30:56 GMT -6
Sone notes on battle reports, play testing, army lists and some restrictions being seen with the new book:
Waywatchers are not cheap but are proving to be very effective. With +1 BS of glade guard and the ability to deploy as scouts, they are very effective shooting stuff. They also come with an extra hand weapon. The Hawk-eye ability to choose to either shoot MS2 with AP or to single shoot with no armour saves makes them very flexible and particularly potent against some armies. With lore of shadow's withering or lore of death soulblight, we are seeing people lower the toughness of high armour save units and models (such as a Daemon Prince) and put significant wounds with Waywatcher and Waystalker shooting. Waystalkers combine the hawk-eye rule with sniper special rule such that they can pick off or put at least or wound or two on characters in a unit, especially mages with no armour save and T3. Since the arrows are not magical, this unit can shoot a unit with BOTWD and seriously damage it whereas the enchanted arrows cannot. If Wood Elves become popular again, this may alter deploymnent and strategy (naked scroll caddies). Some are limiting waywatcher numbers (ETC, for example, count each waywatcher model as multiples againsta total shooting model limit) and limiting the number of waystalkers in an army.
Some are deploying smaller model number scouting units of Deepwood Scouts, a special unit of glade guard with the skirmish and scout abilities, with Hagbane (poison) to take out high T models, especially war machines, early in a game. A unit of core glade guard with Hagbane for larger numbers of poison shooting is also popular.
The other popular enchanted arrows are trueflight. These allow evasive and bunker units to hide behind hard cover (including skirmisher and scout screens) and shoot at long-range with no penalty (glade guard hitting on 3+ just like Tomb Kng Asaph arrows hit on 5+ always). These are effective against skirmishers, units behind cover (including in builidings), and for evasive bunker units. Glade Guard are not cheap (cost +1 point more than HE archers without the extra rank of shooting and cc attacks unless in forests) but they can take full command and a magic banner (12.5ss point limit). Truelfight arrows are also often seen on glade riders which want to march and shoot and often may choose to stay at longer range with such arrows.
Starfire arrows are popular on either one small unit or a character (glade captain) to deal with things like Chimeras and trolls that have regen where getting a single flaming wound on the unit makes it vulnerabe to additional shooting.
Reports indicate that, even with the enchanted arrows, glade guard and similar shooting is not always reliable. Sometimes, it can tear apart an opposing army, but sometimes it does very little.
Another common choice is to put the Acorn of the Ages enchanted item on the lvl 4 mage and the Moonstone on either a lvl 2 mage or the BSB glade captain. This leaves those models relatively vulnerable (Acorn uses the entire magic points allotment of the lord.) but they can Moonstone between forests (counts as marching). The Acron generates D3 forests at the beginning of the deployment phase. The Moonstone allows a unit entirely within a forest to teleport to another forest on the table as long as the entire unit can be placed in the second forest and 1" away from other units and impassible terrain. Venom Thickets give poison attacks in cc to models within them and make all units moving through them (moving in them) take a dangerous terrain test unless forest striders or forest spirits. So, the idea is to spam Venom Thickets to deter opposing units fron entering into or deployment in the forests and to allow Moonstone tricks with the unit with the lvl 4 mage and Moonstone hero character. ETC has limited this, especially in combination with Dark Magic and Lore of Death to prevent using the Moonstone to teleport forward with the lvl 4 and then cast a vortex (Purple Sun in lore of death and Black Horror in Dark Magic) or similar high power spell.
Sisters of the Thorn are particularly favored as a mage bunker unit because they have the fast cav feigned flight and free reform abilities and 4+ ward save and can take a magic banner and full command and cast two decent spells.
Wild riders are proving to be quite effective with 3 S5 AP attacks with ASF and 2 S4 attacks on the charge but need to be screened. Even with a 4+ AS with shields, they are vulnerable to certain shooting at T3 and with single wounds. Warhawk rider units are often a popular screen for wild riders because they also are fast cav (flying cav), count as skirmishers (-1 to hit), are T4 and can use their flying ability to go after war machines, chaff and light units, and character bunker units (hawks have KB and two attacks on the charge). With forest stalker abilities, both warhawk rider and wild rider units can go into forests for additional cover benefits on turn one if a forest is out front of the army (vanguard move).
Tree spirit based armies are still being played but are far less popular. Dryads lost skimisher and a point of strength and only gained hatred in the swap, some people report okay results but their footprint (25mm base) does not work with elf characters. Treekin are fairly pointed but the loss of -1S has limited their utility and punch, even though they are much cheaper, and the vulnerability to flaming remains an issue (T5 4+ AS and 6+ ward is nothing to sneeze at but they are not stubborn and can lose on static CR). Same story with Treemen; loss of S hurts but lower points cost makes them more affordable; the change in strangleroots means that is is often not or worth being taken as a upgrade; but the stubborn monster and high LD ability means Treemen still are seeing play, especially if screened by Treemen or with decent terrain on tables.
Eternal guard is seeing favor as a character bunker unit (run narrow to exploit stubborn), especially in a venom thicket where the poison, ASF, spears with AP combine to make them more potent as a unit.
Wildwood rangers (great weapons, two attacks against models that cause fear) are reportedly hit or miss. S5 is not great, but ASF with two attacks against a lot of high T models is pretty good. Some are playing an Abyssal Wood (units in wood cause fear) and use the woods to make the opposing unit cause fear so that the front rank gains the extra attack and the ranger unit stays mostly out of the woods for the rank bonus.
Some tests of wardancers finds that they are only moderately successful. The limit of one wardance per combat means that they can really do only one thing. They can either hold up something with the 3+ ward and combat and stubborn in forests or maybe wound something (especially if in venom thicket with poison) with KB and AP option or take away SCR from ranks (great against Skaven slaves) but not all at once and can't use the same dance. They do not come with Asrai spears (no innate AP, just two hand weapons). They essentially become effective mostly as a moderately priced screening and chaff unit that might do some damage or hold up something a turn before they die (6+ ward and T3 is not much). If they had the ability to break steadfast, then they'd really be played. The shadowdancer character has essentially the same problem, it is tried in a unit to dance away SCR of the opposing unit or try to wound with KB a character and it will hit hard (S4, 4 A, WS*, I8 with ASF) but will die quickly unless it chooses the 3+ ward (which it cannot repeat two turns in a row).
The biggest problem of the army is the lack of better armour options for elves and fighting characters. Glade guard, glade riders, deepwood scouts, warhawk riders, wardancers, waywatchers, shadowdancers, and waystalkers have no armour or armour options. Eternal guard are light armour with shield option (not cheap for stubborn elf spearmen) and Wildwood Rangers have light armour. Glade Lords and Captains come with light armour with a shield option but no mundane options for upgrades to heavy armour or special mundane armour (in contrast with Dark Elf masters and dreadlords having heavy armour and sea dragon cloaks as options and High Elf princes and nobles having heavy armour and dragon armour). One would think that some evasive ability would be granted, even as an upgrade, to compensate. This means most armies are relegating lords and heroes to support functions (unless a themed army with Tree Ancient).
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