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Post by zao77s on Sept 17, 2010 21:20:17 GMT -6
I woulde be tempted to put your exalted and your BSB in the marauder unit with different equipment. The knights and warriors don't need tons of help from them with killing stuff. If you put two infantry characters in the marauders, they would have ranks and killing power.
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Post by rangerdave on Sept 18, 2010 7:55:51 GMT -6
BSB on disc died again. Sorcerer on disc died, but due to my boneheaded placement.
Marauder infantry died, whittled down by mortar fire, then run over with razor standard knights.
Hell cannon barged into same knights and stuck for remainder of game.
Warriors rolled 4+ward/stubborn from shrine, woot! But didn't do much, ran down some knights who strategically fled, by about a half inch. Killed a cannon. Muddled about rest of game.
Knights went on rampage,until they ran into lector. Occam's Mindrazor is NASTY!
BSB likes to die. Sissy bsb.
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Post by rangerdave on Sept 18, 2010 20:48:13 GMT -6
Here's something different. [/b] [li]Chaos Lord on Daemonic Steed, Ogre Blade, Talisman of Protection, Dragonhelm, Shield [/li][li]Exalted BSB of Slaanesh on Steed of Slaanesh, Charmed Shield, Collar of Khorne, Favour of the Gods, Golden Sigil Sword, Stream of Corruption [/li][li]Sorcerer, Infernal Puppet, Obsidian Trinket [/li][li]Sorcerer, level 2, Dispel Scroll, Third Eye of Tzeentch THE REST[/li][li]23 Warriors of Tzeentch, full command, Rapturous Standard [/li][li]12 Warriors of Tzeentch, full command, Razor Standard [/li][li]5 Marauders of Slaanesh, Flails, Musician [/li][li]5 Marauders of Slaanesh, Flails, Musician [/li][li]8 Knights of Tzeentch, full command, Banner of Rage [/li][li]Chaos Warshrine [/li][li]Chaos Warshrine [/li][/ul] The lord goes by Bells and the bsb answers to Whistles. They join the Knights and kill things. The front rank of the Knights is made of Bells and Whistles, plus the command group. The command group will generate 10 strength 5 attacks, Bells is packing six attacks at strength 7, and Whistles lays in 5 attacks at initiative 10. Add the steeds and a supporting rank, and I call it the Knight Train. The sorcerers provide a bit of defense, while hoping to take advantage of the enemy's miscast misfortunes. The lvl 2 guy with Trinket will boost one of the MoT Warriors unit's magic resistance to 5+. The other will jump into the smaller MoT Warriors unit. A lot of people seem to like 12-14 warriors, so I'm giving them a try. I almost took the War Banner on the smaller unit, but I figured the Razor Standard will add at least 1 extra kill most of the time, with the potential of adding a lot more. The two warshrines have been nice. They tend to survive many games, the buffs are fantastic, and they do have some killing potential. I'm missing the Hell Cannon, which worries me a bit. It's great for holding a weak flank.
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Post by jessegarrett on Sept 18, 2010 22:56:09 GMT -6
Looks solid, very hard to get point from.
My only concern is the 2 random fast cav units and how they are the only easy vp's in the army. I would rather see them dropped and the smaller warrior unit beefed up.
You did a sweet paint job on those marauder horsmen though, so keeping them might be worth it for that reason
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Post by ronbrown on Sept 20, 2010 9:20:28 GMT -6
I don't like the 12 warrior unit. Its small enough to attract shooting after the marauder horse are taken out. That's about 450 pts that can be taken out. The warriors would be more difficult, but shooting could easily get them into a bad spot of having to just avoid combat or giving up points.
I think you'll really miss the hellcannon and won't get much out of these guys.
I also like the large marauder cav unit as it can accomplish something strategically (like taking out shooter/war machine) and then retreat with its remaining models to preserve the points.
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Post by sdhakala on Sept 20, 2010 10:36:52 GMT -6
A still think a hero or lord on a disc is helpful in charging out to take on warmachines and stuff. The Daemonic Mount is a Monstrous Beast, making the model with the rider Monstrous Cav, so it has the same problem as being mounted on a Jugg in that there is no Look Out Sir! I think Look Out Sir is essential with the amount of shooting and magic in the current metagame.
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Post by rangerdave on Sept 20, 2010 11:00:50 GMT -6
Well, my disc-riding BSB is now on foot, and I'm working on a cavalry BSB model to replace him. He one failed ward save from something that ignores armor, and he's toast. So I'll keep my disc-riding sorcerer for now, but they just weren't paying off often enough.
The daemonic mount I have is just cool, which is part of why I want to use it, though I don't like the 50mm footprint, and you point out some other issues with it. I'll save points going to regular chaos steeds and get better armor out of it, so I've already made those changes.
But now I need more knights. Still, I think I'm going to miss my level 4 sorcerer, the hell cannon, and stubborn on the knights. Idea is, the knights kill too much to lose combat, but we know how that can go.
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Post by sdhakala on Sept 20, 2010 11:32:13 GMT -6
Yeah. I really like my Daemonic Mount and Jugg Mount hero/lord models too but just can't play them with warriors in 8th edition unless I can ally with Bloodcrushers from Dameons of Chaos. Matt (my son) has been considering running a bloodcrusher unit (3 wide and 2 ranks) with a herald of Khorne on Jugg as a very nasty but expensive unit due to stomp and MR of Dameon of Khorne models and Look Out Sir for a really nasty unit, except that I think cannons are a problem for that unit.
I'm beginning to think that the blasted standard plus MR on a character plus some warshrine blessing may be worthwhile for the knights to give them better protection against heavy artillery and stuff that ignores or blows through armour saves. I still like the knights very much, even if they can be tar pitted by a steadfast unit with a BSB nearby for a couple of turns.
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Post by rangerdave on Sept 20, 2010 11:53:03 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback, guys. It is helpful.
Current iteration looks like this:
Lord, Chaos Steed, ogre blade, talisman of preservation, dragonhelm Exalted Hero BSB of Tzeentch, chaos steed, charmed shield, collar of khorne, golden sigil sword, favour of the gods [Both in Knights unit]
Sorcerer, lvl 2, infernal puppet, obsidian trinket Sorcerer, dispel scroll, third eye [Maybe third eye should be on lvl 2 sorcerer for the casting bonus]
23 warriors of tzeentch, full command, rapturous standard 12 warriors of tzeentch, full command, war banner
10 Horsemen of slaanesh, flail, spears, musician [2501 with axes instead of spears, grrr]
10 knights of tzeentch, full command, banner of rage Warshrine x 2
Still miss my hell cannon. Still think not having stubborn on knights could tank me. One bad round of combat or horrible dice, and goodbye 1,000 points.
What if I play with 2750 and you guys get 2500?
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Post by Eric on Sept 21, 2010 12:17:26 GMT -6
I used to run a chaos army some of the time. But that was around the time of the 6th edition rules. They done gone and changed it all up. Now all sorts of things I once included are gone: - harpies or furies or some sort of winged monkey-ish things, gone
- flesh hounds, gone
- minotaurs, gone
- assorted kinds of beastmen, gone
So, I started rummaging through my collection the other day with the idea of seeing what I'm left with and what I have laying around that could be used to rebuild. I found that it was not as bad as I thought. What follows is not an army list but rather an inventory or muster --- it's what I have to build with. Model Roster for Warriors of Chaos Army - ~2629 Pts worth of models. - GW ALBION FENBEASTS
3 Chaos Spawn @ 55 Pts x 3 = 165 Pts
- GW RIVER &/OR STONE TROLLS
3 Trolls @ 45 Pts x 3 = 135 Pts
- GW 7th ED PLASTIC GIANT ****
1 Chaos Giant @ 225.0 Pts
- GW 5th ED DRAGON OGRE WITH HUGE SWORD
1 Dragon Ogre; Great Weapon; Light Armour @ 77 Pts
- GW 4th ED CHAOS KNIGHTS WITH LANCES [10] [note 1]
- BM CHAOS KNIGHTS WITH LANCES [3 maybe 4]
- GW 6th ED CHAOS KNIGHTS CONVERSIONS [4 maybe 5] [note 2]
18 Chaos Knights @ 810 Pts Ensorcelled Weapons; Chaos Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician, Champion, Barded Chaos Steeds
- GW 5th ED CHAOS WARRIORS [12 to 14] ****
- GW 4th ED SINGLE PIECE CHAOS WARRIORS [5 to 7]
21 Chaos Warriors @ 315.0 Pts Standard; Musician; Champion; Chaos Armour
- GW 5th ED PLASTIC WOLVES ****
5 Chaos Warhounds @ 30.0 Pts
- GW 7th ED PLASTIC MOUNTED MARAUDER KIT [note 1]
5 Marauder Horsemen @ 101.0 Pts No Mark; Flail; Throwing Axes; Light Armour; Shield; Musician; Warhorse
- GW & WFRP SINGLE PIECE CHAOS WIZARDS
4 Chaos Sorcerer @ 340 Pts No Mark; Magic Level 1; Chaos Armour
- GW 5th ED CONVERTED PLASTIC MOUNTED CHAOS WIZARD
1 Chaos Sorcerer @ 101.0 Pts, Magic Level 1; Chaos Armour; Barded Chaos Steed
- GW 5th ED CHAOS KNIGHT MOUNTED ON A 7th ED COLD-ONE LIZARD
1 Exalted Hero @ 165.0 Pts Chaos Armour; Shield; Reptilian Daemonic Mount
- GW 4th ED CHAOS KNIGHT CENTAUR CONVERSION
1 Exalted Hero @ 165.0 Pts Chaos Armour; Shield; Axe; Barded Centaur Body
CAPS indicates what the model really is. **** These models have been painted. BM stands for Battle Masters. Notes: [/b] Un-assembled; still in the box 2 These have Empire knight legs [/ul] I've been closely following David's exploration of build options. Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas about what I ought to leave out, add, assemble next or acquire would be of great interest. I have no idea what to do with the lone Dragon Ogre . . . maybe I could make a turn counter out of him I guess I could run him as the Shaggoth but he isn't really impressive enough for that.
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Post by rangerdave on Sept 21, 2010 14:39:30 GMT -6
Threadjacking! Threadjacking! (Forum etiquette would have you start your own thread! It must be the Skaven in you.
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Post by ronbrown on Sept 21, 2010 14:50:03 GMT -6
Regarding David's most recent list. I think you'd be happier with dropping the 12 warriors, putting axes on the marauder cav, taking a hellcannon and putting stubborn on the chaos lord.
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Post by rangerdave on Sept 21, 2010 14:52:34 GMT -6
Yeah, Ron, I've been thinking the same thing and have actually done that in the latest, not-yet-posted iteration. Only 1 unit of warriors, back to 25, hell cannon, but....
It's the stubborn that I need to find points for, though I think I can drop the ogre blade, take a halberd, and still be good. I like str 7 at his Init but str 6 is almost as good. I just hate 1+ armor saves and watching someone roll all 4's.
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Post by ronbrown on Sept 21, 2010 14:55:05 GMT -6
Couldn't you keep stubborn if you took only 24 warriors?
Ogre Blade (40) Stubborn (35) Talisman (15) Dragonhelm (10)
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Post by rangerdave on Sept 21, 2010 15:03:19 GMT -6
That talisman is the 45 point one, the 4+ save. I guess I could make him Tzeentch and take the 6+ save and have a 1+/5+ save.
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